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okay
I
welcome to Sputnik orbiting the world
with me George Galloway and me gatri
it's a funny old world as Margaret
thater once said 100 years almost
exactly from the first February
Revolution in Russia and more than a
quarter of a century since the end of
History foretold by the collapse of the
Soviet Union the word Russia is
everywhere if you believe the experts
Russia is currently in command of almost
every political development in the
Western World from the election of
President Trump through brexit to the
forthcoming election for the presidency
of France left-wing parties are talking
right and right-wing parties are talking
left president Trump has just scrapped
the free trade TPP and put the effective
abolition of NAFTA on the table and the
American labor unions emerged this week
from a rare visit to the White House
saying they had been treated with
unbelievable respect and that Trump was
the president they'd been waiting for
our first guest is a very important man
indeed he is chief of staff at Britain's
biggest Trade union unite right-and man
of Len MOSI he's a member of the TU
General Council and he's a veteran
leader of Britain's anti-war movement
the stop the war Coalition he's Andrew
Murray Andrew let me start with this
question of how boundaries appear to be
shifting a man known to both of us a
distinguished journalist
and urw Trotsky Paul Mason uh was up in
arms the other day about the danger to
Nato posed by the election of President
Trump indeed on question time a few days
before that he'd called for President
Obama and the CIA to physically stop
Donald Trump from taking the oath of
office on the grounds that he was a
security risk because of his supposed
relations with Russia so if an N2
trotskyite is talking in these terms
whilst Trump is scrapping free trade
Arrangements insisting on us Steel in
the building of infrastructure and so on
the old terms of left and right are
definitely shifting I mean I don't agree
with Paul in those examples that you've
indicated I think protecting the
Integrity of NATO is very low down in
the priority of most voters labor voters
in this country and of most
socialists and the idea of overturning
the outcome of a democratic election is
really no way forward but I think the
deeper problem is that the left across
much of the developed World shall we say
is paying the price for its prolonged
and disastrous Embrace of economic
liberalism new labor in Britain a
particularly lurid example the clintons
in the USA hardly less so orand in
France most recently and this has struck
a a CLE through the Coalition that has
supported leftwing politics socialist
politics Social Democratic politics uh
in one country after uh after another uh
president Trump uh adeptly exploited
that to win his his sufficient majority
uh in the key states in the presidential
election last uh November uh and it's a
lesson that we desperately need to learn
trade unions uh would not often have
been in Downing Street uh of late least
of all under a labor prime minister
I doubt if they've been in the White
House in the last 8 years Trump met them
in the first 3 days of his presidency
and they were enormously impressed by
what he had to say if you take out the
sexism the misogyny and the racism and I
know that these are very big things
Trump's program was effectively a
left-wing program it was defending jobs
workers industry uh and it was the idea
uh that the interest of the American
working class would be back at the top
of the agenda proved very effective it
proved very effective in the key
industrial uh industrial States I mean I
think I'm sure we'd agree you can't just
take out the misogyny and the racism and
and the potential authoritarianism and
regard that as of no account but
nevertheless his message of economic uh
nationalism putting America First in
industrial questions and scrapping the
trade deals which were often sponsored
by parties or leaders of the left but
have been disastrous for uh industrial
communities in Britain as in America is
enormously popular we will have to see
whether uh six months down the line or a
couple of years down the line Trump who
of course is has formed a cabinet of
billionaires um uh and rather Strange
Love type military characters whether
they'll actually deliver uh on that but
trade unions and USA I can't speak for
them but I I do know that many workers
are desperate for relief from economic
liberalism uh and uh Trump uh is
indicating in that uh in that uh
Direction and I actually thought they
were dead I never heard of these
American Trade unions at all was amazed
at the exist well well like uh like
unions in many other parts of the world
but more so I think they have declined
in in numbers certainly and they have
become more reliant on public sector uh
trade unions where unionization is is
easier but my own Union unite we have a
strong relationship with what's now
called the usw it was the Steel Workers
Union based in Pittsburg where you can
see the devastation of uh of the last 30
years much of it um exacerbated by the
policies of Bill Clinton and which
Hillary Clinton would probably have
carried forward but the Obama and
Clinton were very sound on what you
might call identity issues or liberal
issues not quite as sound as the pretend
I mean on deportations for example uh
Barack Obama deported more people from
the United States than all previous
American presidents put together uh but
they were let's say they spoke nicely
and they were uh mindful of people's
differences and so on but they
championed an economic system which
beggared and destroyed not just white
workers but all workers in the United
States well they did uh some of that was
masked at the time by General economic
growth which took some of the edge off
for a time and then after 20 or 30 years
the economy goes into the enormous slump
we've seen from 2008 people turn around
and see utter utter Devastation not just
economic Devastation social Devastation
uh uh families communities very high
levels of drug addiction uh other social
uh pathologies I think of course we need
to recast the whole polarization of
identity politics and class politics in
so far as uh the working class is half
female uh it's multi-ethnic it has many
people who are gay or lesbian a very
diverse class and that diversity needs
to be recognized if its Unity is to be
enhanced uh but that cannot be to come
back to the central point on the basis
of free market economics uh and one
can't one can't say that you know
advancing legislation very good
important Progressive legislation on
particular social questions uh Trump's
as it were uh an economic policy Bill
Clinton was right on one thing it is the
economy stupid and that is where his
stupid economics have failed in France
we have a very similar thing uh
occurring uh parties that are of the
right are talking left and the parties
of the left you mentioned Holland who's
limped off the field with 4% in the uh
public opinion polls they're talking
right they're defending neoliberalism
defending the eu's neoliberal economic
basis defending NATO uh hostile to
Russia and so on uh so this is not just
an American thing it's everywhere isn't
it it is everywhere I mean it's
extraordinary the labor party in this
country at the moment is not polling
terribly well but the extraordinary fact
is is polling better than the Social
Democratic party in any other country in
Europe with a possible exception of
Norway um the uh France uh you've
mentioned the SPD in Germany the once
Mighty SP PDS 20% the Dutch labor party
a regular getter of 40% of the vote uh
30 40 years ago is now I think in some
polls in eighth place in the fourth
coming general election in the
Netherlands this is something point my
Dutch wife is forever pointing out the
Socialist de the Socialist Party to the
left of them that's actually growing I
know there are there are in some of
those countries left parties that sort
of top up the aggregate left vote but
but of course few of those have actually
been tested by exercising office and
where they have as in Greece the results
have not been terribly good so it does
tend to show that the Social Democratic
movement does not have answers to the
problems of a time or has not had in the
last 30 years they've hitched themselves
to a sort of modified neoliberalism with
with flowers and fragrance uh but
neoliberalism yet and since 2008 it is
ever to everyone that doesn't work let's
finish uh by talking about Russia um
Russia's a normal capitalist country and
yet Western Powers seem uh intent on
treating it as if it were an ideological
opponent an existential threat it's
blamed for everything from so-called
fake news to putting Trump in the white
house as a kind of Manchurian Candidate
a labor MP Ben Bradshaw said in
Parliament recently that uh Russia was
almost certainly involved in the brexit
vote here they're accused of handpicking
the next president of France what is it
about Russia and is it a real danger to
Trump if he does make this R Ral with
Russia uh isn't he at physical risk in
doing so I think he' be at political
risk probably I by which I mean
impeachment or or I mean there's enough
material to hand to get that off the
ground if they wish to but I do think
it's extraordinary if you look since his
election uh the you know he his policies
on a range of other things uh the elite
have more or less swallowed or prepared
to put up with even tearing up trade
agreements even very provocative moves
towards China in the or potential moves
rhetoric at any event uh they've sort of
gone along with the push back on his
idea of forming a better relationship
with Russia has been extraordinary and
has stretched Ross the political
Spectrum from some of his right-wing
backers who are clearly unhappy with it
and they pushing back uh to people on
the uh on the liberal uh left it is it
is a form of Madness because as you say
Russia is now a capitalist country it
does not pose the ideological challenge
the systemic challenge that the
existence of the Soviet Union did you
could say Russia is authoritarian but no
more so less so indeed than China and
much less so than Saudi Arabia uh uh for
example uh it's uh intervention in the
Middle East is minuscule compared with
the serial and disastrous interventions
of the western Powers it is very hard to
find a rational basis for it other than
people the elite need an enemy maybe
China is too big and risky a one to
address also that Russia is uh filling a
vacuum to some extent in the Middle East
pushing back against some American
interests there but these are only only
half reasons I don't offer them as as
the full story maybe it's just
familiarity Russia was the enemy for so
long in its Soviet uh uh days that uh
people can't think of anything else but
it is it is irrational and very very
dangerous and um uh we've seen recently
more pro-russian politicians been
elected in several uh countries The
Front Runners in the French presidential
election are all more pro- Russian and
it seems to be driving some people mad
the idea of having a better relationship
Ian that's that is all that Trump has
said really uh you know listening to the
possibility that Russia has a point of
view that needs to be taken seriously
rather than just uh be treated with
disdain as it was in the 1990s uh
treated as a little consequence uh that
seems to be causing hysteria and it has
to be challenged because this sort of
psychosis uh is the anti-ro to war
Andrew Murray thanks for joining us
again on the Sputnik coming up next a
strange tale from across the mercy don't
miss it
welcome back to Sputnik alzer's recent
documentary series shed a spotlight on
the alleged role of the Israeli Embassy
in the corridors of power in Britain a
senior Israeli official was apparently
captured unwisely boasting of how they
were trying to bring down Britain's
Deputy foreign minister and a veritable
hit list of British MPS was suggested to
him by his interlocutors it was claimed
by one of those interlocutors that
almost all Britain's conservative MPS
are members of the friends of Israel and
that their counterpart in the labor
party is large powerful and proactive
Jeremy Corbin the labor leader wrote to
the Prime Minister demanding an inquiry
but none has yet been forthcoming one of
the front lines of the inner party
conflict in labor is Mery side though
there are many Fishers present there
local labor organizations are either
suspended or in special measures normal
reselection procedures will likely be
suspended thus protecting several labor
MPS thought to be under threat of
replacement one of those is Liverpool's
Riverside constituency and our next
guest is a veteran and well-known
activist there she's Audrey White and
she joins us now glender Jackson
famously played you in a movie in the
1980s uh that was a tumultuous period in
labor history his too is this not just a
rerun Shan of all these allegations of
homophobia and anti-Semitism and
trotskyism and leftwing infiltration and
so on this is really just a power
struggle isn't it well it is a power
struggle you're right it's about the
right versus the left and it's about the
use of um slayes and allegations and
smoking mirrors instead of addressing
the the arguments and it's fabulous to
live in Liverpool now with the re agent
greater than it ever was never mind the
' 80s look ahead what's going on now is
massive the young people people from all
different walks of life who are flooding
into the labor party and yet were not
allowed to function well the uh
approximate reason uh seems to have been
an anonymous dossier that was produced
we know not from where and we can't
allege from where uh but there's no
doubt the dossier was produced and was
used as part of the argument to get you
and other constituencies in Mery side
suspended or placed in special measures
what do you know about this dosier well
can I just go back a bit because it
started from a tweet from a counselor
counselor um small in Liverpool saying
he's never heard this was as far back as
April saying he's never heard of anti-i
M uh comments that he's heard at a
recent uh constituency meeting and from
then on um we were slandered around our
city our city was slandered really
because this is a city center uh
constituency so we're all uh denigrated
and slayed against by being accused of
tolerating anti-Semitism so that went on
and it built up and it built up in the
press that it was acceptable to say that
Riverside um constituency labor party
had people making anti-semitic comments
and nobody doing anything about it so
that's where the it started and then it
went on with no action being taken at
all me writing to the uh Northwest labor
party right into the executive well this
is all around the place what's happening
and nothing happened ignored every
correspondence then all of a sudden da
before the labor Party Conference that
document that you're talking about was
produced very very conveniently to
sabotage the uh Jeremy Corbin's
conference and it was touted around all
of the television stations the
newspapers and so on anonymously
Anonymous document how can you do that
George it's terrible the stuff in that
document is full of lies and liable I
knew Eddie Lyden he was a friend of mine
in Parliament for for many years and
I've known you for many years and I know
that Eddie lyen is not your father Yes
and yet that's in the document that
Eddie lyen is your father which is a
tremendous slur on your mother and a
great insult to your father of course
well I think what it does show is the
lack of uh interest in the truth because
to put that in this document ER it's
complete disregard for accuracy so it
what I'd like to say is that that
reflects everything else the garbage
that's in it absolutely but how did they
manage to put that in then where did
that that come from I was meant to have
said it on the radio um and I asked for
evidence of this so what's quite
shocking is the lens they were doing
going to to protect an anonymous
document the contained liel it was sent
to me not a link but an audio recording
and I've had that audio recording
forensically
examined because I didn't believe that
I'd said Eddie Len was my father and
I've got a report from a a top uh expert
witness who analyzes these things and he
said there's three
indications around the place where I'm
supposed to have said Eddie L was my
father has been changed doctored
doctored yeah so what I actually said
was Eddie Lyon was my father's agent
right he was he was a lovely man Eddie
lyen I'm not sure you are Li
by being called Eddie Lyon's daughter
because he was a very fine man but your
mother's definitely libeled uh in uh in
in that and I know a thing or two about
liel let's go on to the bigger issues
next door in
wallacy uh they're completely suspended
indefinitely yes uh on the supposed
allegation that
someone an official presumably of the
constituency tolerated uh homophobic
abuse of their MP Jeremy Corbin's
one-time Challenger Angela Eagle even
though the person who cheered the
meeting was herself the mother of uh a
daughter in a same-sex marriage you
couldn't make that up and that a brick
had been thrown through Angela Eagle
MP's window it turned out it wasn't her
window and it wasn't a brick uh so how
is it possible that an entire
constituency labor party could remain
now
uh many many months completely suspended
on such bogus uh uh pretext it mirrors
what's happening in Liverpool in the
Liverpool R Riverside you've got nobody
charged with anti-Semitism but the whole
world in his uh thinks there's
anti-Semitism there the same thing with
the um homophobic complaints nobody's
actually been uh charged with being
homophobic so it's smoking mirrors
George it's just unbelievable the
machine scery of the labor party is
being is being used to help these people
hold on to power they are terrified of
the our movement it wasn't Jeremy Corbin
it was the movement that they're rarely
afraid of they've tried to get rid of
cut the head off the movement by trying
to attack Jeremy Corbin then when they
failed that they've come back to the
membership we want to be out there now
we want to campaign for the Women's
Hospital that's the labor party are very
very quiet over they should be out there
campaigning with us we're campaigning
for the Dockers for basic services that
the Dockers should have that we they
should be with us over these things
they've had
it so easy for so long they're terrified
that this movement will be as putting
demands on them to protect Ordinary
People if this is all about Jeremy
Corbin as the head of this movement that
you talk of of what does Jeremy Corbin
have to say about this thousands in fact
scores of thousands of his supporters
were either expelled or suspended or
otherwise denied a
vote his supporting constituencies like
Wy like Riverside are either suspended
or in special measures if he's the
leader of the labor party uh why isn't
he doing something about it and if he
can't do something about it
in what sense is he the leader of the
labor party I think he's been he's doing
a brilliant job of as being leader of
the labor party I think that you have to
look at the fact that the probably one
of the first time in history and
probably throughout the world where you
actually have a leadership that is way
ahead of uh the organization of a
political party we are the biggest
political party in the whole of Europe
and it's all because at the top we have
this one man who was really really
reflec in the move mood of the country
and the mood of ordinary people but who
owns the Machinery of the labor party
not Jeremy Corbin he's not a dictator he
can't say this happens and that happens
we are a Democratic party and to do that
we've got a long long way to go to
change the Machinery to make sure that
we have MPS that represent us to make
sure that the chair of the constituency
doesn't manipulate everything so that we
can't have discussions which is what's
happened in our constitu has he come by
has he been recently oh he's he come a
few times to Liverpool and the um the uh
demonstrations we've had were absolutely
he's very popular uh in Liverpool but uh
if his constituency labor parties are in
suspended animation there's a clear
problem there Audrey White thanks for
joining us on the
Sputnik and now it's your turn to tell
us what you think through the portals of
social media what's rattling gri so
Russia seems to commend everything from
moscon now from Trump to brexit and now
allegedly also splitting NATO to which
euroman activists says I like everything
what Mr Putin does we don't need
expensive and obsolete NATO it's very
weird that these right-wing politicians
think that the masses across Europe are
fixated on keep NATO and its Unity at
vast expense and for no purpose is
remarkable misconception what's also
remarkable is Donald Trump's meeting
with the American Trade unions which is
just truly unbelievable uh so we posted
a picture of him with the meeting them
around the table and Amy Wyatt says why
are they all clapping this Nazi well
he's not a Nazi I mean anybody that
thinks Donald Trump is a Nazi has never
actually seen a Nazi uh he's uh
completely
Mercurial uh
impulsive petulent childish many other
things but he's not a Nazi and the
really important thing about that
picture is that within 3 days of taking
power he brought the American Trade
unions into the White House I'm willing
to bet they never set foot in the White
House in the whole eight years of Barack
Obama that's right and that's all the
time we have for the tweets today which
alas means that's the end of the show
but you can stay in touch with us on
Twitter and Instagram rtor Sputnik or
Facebook Sputnik on Russia today it's
goodbye from me gatri and from me George
Galloway it's been
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marvelous